[marcapra]

I took the cardboard backing off of my Philco 46-1209 console. The backing does not cover up the radio chassis, but curves in to the chassis base. It has two large pads on the inside part. I checked where the padding is placed, and one pad covers the area of the phonograph, and the lower pad covers the back of the speaker. Maybe this padding is just for sound deadening? Since I'm working with old radios now, do they contain any asbestos materials? Thanks, Marc

[Ron Ramirez]

To my knowledge, it does not. It looks like some sort of sound deadening material, as you mentioned.

[Philco1928]

Probably. Asbestos was used throughout the radio industry, but was limited. A tube with a hotter than normal filament positioned next to the wood cabinet often had a small asbestos pad between it and the cabinet. "Mini" table sets usually had the inner side of the top lined with a thin layer of asbestoes.

If the pad is grayish-white, brittle, & fiberous it's likely to be asbestoes. As long as you do not disturb it there should be no health risk. However if you work on the set I suggest you get an expensive industrial grade filter mask for your face before disturbing it. Consult a qualified salesperson before the purchase. However you then become faced with the problem of airborn microscopic particles when the set is worked on or disturbed.

Also be aware that transporting it in a vehicle may shake small pieces lose. So wrap the set in a plastic bag. But then you have the problem of legally disposing of the bag. The asbestos regulations today are out of control. People buying old homes in certain states must have the painted walls tested for asbestos paint. The whole situation is out of control.

I am not legally qualified what to advise you to ultimately do with the radio, other than dig a deep hole in your yard and bury it. Well, actually, I can't even advise you to do that, and I take no responsibility for any actions you decide to take. I guess you're screwed my friend. Call the EPA and ask them. (Man! Why did I even respond to this post . . . )

[Ron Ramirez]

The padding the OP is referring to is black in color, has the texture of flattened out fiberglass insulation, and is located behind the record changer and speaker, not behind - or under - the radio chassis.

I have no idea if it has any asbestos content or not. I still lean against it, but I'm no scientist, nor do I play one on TV .

The asbestos regulations today are out of control.

Yes indeed...in my opinion, a lot of governmental regulations are out of control, but to say more would be violating my own anti-political rules on this Phorum.

Oops, guess I'd better swat myself over the hand with a ruler for that one. No, wait, to do so would be abuuuusive...

[Chuck Schwark]

If you are concerned about the substance, wear a face mask and disposable gloves, spray it liberally
with clear lacquer to stabilize and seal it, wait until it's DRY, then carefully peel it off
cabinet into a zip-lok bag, bag it again and use your favorite disposal procedure.

[wa2ise]

Asbestos in radios, what to do about it

1. At present, asbestos is known to be hazardous only if inhaled. Although there is some ongoing study on ingestion, the results are so far not alarming. Certainly less alarming than the results on arsenic, lead or cadmium.

2. Asbestos will become airborne only if friable (easily broken into small pieces). It becomes friable primarily if disturbed. There are three significant forms of asbestos as it was commonly used in consumer articles: Chrysotile, Amosite, and Crocidolite. Of these, chrysotile (white asbestos) is the most likely fiber to be found in that mat in your radio.

3. Asbestos that remains in place or can be made to remain in place is NOT hazardous.

Safing (encapsulating): Most (not all) of the asbestos used in domestic radios is included in a soft mat, either woven (rare) or non-woven (common). Usually it is held together with either a cementicious or gypsum-based binder together with several other fibers. The trick is to replace the binder with a more permanent and less mechanically vulnerable material. The EPA and OSHA recognize many sorts of encapsulants, including the binders used in both Duco Cement and Amberoid Cement. (Personal comment: I recommend Amberoid for its distinct color and the fact that I find it somewhat easier to use and less expensive that Duco. But the processes are identical. Amberoid will also maintain the insulating properties of asbestos, I am not sure if Duco will do the same.)

Mix the material of choice (Duco or Amberoid) with equal parts by volume of Acetone and soak this diluted material into the asbestos mat. It will re-glue the mat in place and bind all the fibers together. Allow to dry and soak again. Do this work away from flame or any source of flame. Do this work outdoors if possible. Do not attempt to brush, clean or vacuum the mat prior to treatment. Glue ALL of it down.

The times when the insulating mat are most likely to be disturbed are when the chassis is removed or reinstalled in a radio. Given that the original binders were not all that effective in the first place, and that they were made with deliquescent materials (gypsum or portland cements) it is very likely that some of the fibers will have become loose over the years, and may be disturbed when the chassis is moved or removed. If mice have inhabited the radio, this is a certainty. So, some initial cautions MUST be taken. And given that some here will neither admit to the hazard nor take any precautions, and that others here may not have the financial resouces to "have it done", what I suggest here is not offered as a way to eliminate a significant risk, but a way to reduce it at least in part.

First: Work out of doors. If you choose not to believe in any risk, it is still unfair to introduce asbestos into a house (or household) where it may remain a hidden hazard forever. Work over a large leaf-and-lawn bag if possible.

Tools:
1. Good particle mask. Must be effective from .1 to 10 microns (a human hair is about 50 microns in diameter). Because asbestos fibers are small and light, they can be suspended in the air for long periods. This is NOT a paper painter's mask. But once obtained, may be retained for multiple uses.

2. Small spray bottle filled with a 15:1 water-to-dish-soap solution. You will need a couple of ounces for the process, and about a pint at the end to soak the debris.

3. Strong paper towels... those that will not dissolve in soapy water.

4. Small, soft-bristled disposable brush. About 1/2" wide or smaller with at least 1" bristles.

5. Single-edge razor blade (not always necessary).

Spray the soap solution around the base of the chassis before removal. Make sure that the entire perimeter where it touches the asbestos is saturated and damp. This will hold the fibers from becoming airborne as the chassis is removed.

Remove the chassis carefully. Use the razor blade if necessary to cut loose the mat from the chassis. The idea is to leave the mat in place and not on the chassis.

Look on the chassis. If there are any visible particles of the mat on or in it, they must be collected and removed. For this, you will use the towels, the brush and PLENTY of the soapy water. A wet asbestos fiber will not become airborne. Soap is the wetting agent. Take your time and be thorough. Clean ANYTHING, even spider-webs or other material from the chassis. Be sure that it is clean.

Gently spray the inside of the radio cabinet with the soapy water. This would be those areas around but not covered by the mat. Wipe this down with the paper towels and repeat. The idea here is to capture any bits of asbestos that may have come loose from the mat.

Allow the cabinet to dry thoroughly. Soak the now-dry mat with the safing material as above. While the cabinet is drying, collect all the other detritus (brush, towels, razor, whatever) into the garbage/leaf & lawn bag. Pour the remaining soap solution over it so that it becomes a soapy mess. Seal the bag and bag it a second time. If there are ANY leaks in the first bag, bag it a third time. Dispose of the bags with your township's hazardous materials regulations, or in a regular landfill, NOT an incinerator or where the trash may be incinerated. Remove, double-bag and dispose of the mask filter also. You will use a new one for each session.

A bit long-winded as always, but the proverbial ounce of prevention covers many pounds of care in this case.

Above section on asbestos written by:
Peter Wieck